Aliens, The Government And Religion: A Melting Pot

The Most Important Conversations | Alien Life

Humans have been fascinated with the mysterious and the unknown since the beginning of history. One of the most celebrated topics is alien life. Where are they? Do they exist? What do they look like? And do we already have contact with them? Chad Lefevre and September Dohrmann attempt to answer questions about extraterrestrial life in this episode. They talk about the possible reasons why the government could be covering up evidence about aliens and what it could mean for humans if they truly exist. Their conversation dives even deeper into how the possibility of aliens correlates with human’s concepts of religion, politics, and power. 

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Aliens, The Government And Religion: A Melting Pot

September, how are you doing?

I have to take a stress test on Friday for the cardiologist and I’m building myself up for it. I’m feeling nervous but I’m feeling pretty good.

Isn’t it funny they call it a stress test? It’s like we don’t have enough stress going on in the world, the things.

I’m stressing myself over the stress test. What are they going to do? How am I going to feel? Am I going to be okay? It’s all these.

Have you never had one?

Never had one.

You’re just going to run on a treadmill.

It’s been a year since I’ve been in the gym so I’m nervous about the windedness.

It’s a ten-minute-long thing. They put the sensors all over you. They get you walking and then they increase the speed. They increase it to the point where I don’t know what the metric is. At some point, they don’t want to go above a certain number like your heart rate and everything like that. It’s a formula between how fast you can go and how hard your heart is working, and then that gives you a score. That’s it.

It’s a little stressful thinking about it.

It’s because they call it a stress test. They should just call it a heart optimization measurement or something. I don’t know.

Yes, it wouldn’t be so stressful like, “What kind of stress are they going to put me under?” Outside of that, I’m good. How about you?

I’m fine. Speaking of stress, there’s a lot of that going on around the world and I’m sure there’s no shortage of things for us to talk about in terms of people who are stressed and handling stress.

Maybe the aliens will come and save us.

I had that thought when all this alien stuff was going down in the news. I have my alien sweater on if you can see that.

The spacecraft with the dancing bears, yes.

The Grateful Dead Alien Sweater. What do you think about these aliens?

I’m not sure how I feel about it. I know for certain that there has to be more life in this enormous galaxy and universe that we live in and be the only living life form. We are a variation of an alien that could be possible. Maybe we are also aliens to aliens. I don’t trust our government. That’s my thing. I don’t think that they would be like, “Meet our fellow universe neighbors. Here are our aliens and what they do.”

Joe Rogan has been talking a lot about aliens as well, too, and finding some historical information about how the mysteries were created some of the pyramids, and some of those structures that are hard to explain. There’s a possibility that aliens had contributed to that. There’s the story of how the government has always known that there have been aliens or extraterrestrial life living out there but they wanted to keep it from society.

They have this big arrangement between the US government and the galaxy people of how things have to operate and how they have to run. There are stories of how the government is so screwed up that the aliens are going to come in, correct things, put humanity on the right course, and help the planet because we’re damaging our planet. This thing that we live on is being damaged by our poor choices as humans. There’s a lot of information out there. I don’t know what to believe or what not to believe. It’s just more of like what feels true to me and that’s where I stand with it. What are your thoughts on all of that?

I followed it for years. My whole life, I’ve been fascinated by the topic. It makes sense that there’s another life form from a pure probability standpoint. We’re one galaxy. NASA believes that there are approximately two trillion galaxies in the known universe. That’s as far as they can see. They can’t see past that. That doesn’t mean they’ve hit the end. We just don’t have instruments that can go farther. The known universe has two trillion galaxies. That’s two trillion Milky Ways. We’re in 1 solar system in 1 galaxy of 2 trillion.

We can’t even fly to the edge of our solar system, which is in the Milky Way Galaxy, and that’s one of two trillion. Just pure probability, there’s life out there. There’s no question. Whether that life is advanced enough to be able to find us is the question but why not? Humans in their Homo sapiens or our form have only been around for about 100,000 years. If you had other life forms on other planets that had a million years under their belt, like ten times, how much more advanced would they be than us?

If you 10X where we have been on the planet for 100,000 years, and you’d look at the technology we have, it would seem to me quite probable that we would be able to, at some point, if we don’t destroy ourselves in the process, which is unknown with humanity, develop technologies that will allow us to traverse the solar system, the galaxy, and maybe beyond. It then gets quite metaphysical for me because then I start to think about this.

We relate to being able to travel through Einstein’s relativity and some of his formulas for the way the universe works and the way that we know it but just because what we know is what we know doesn’t mean that’s all there is to know. There’s a guy out there who I’ve been listening to for a couple of years, Dr. Steven Greer. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of him or come across some of his stuff. He got some interesting stuff and he’s been doing this stuff for many years.

He’s saying, “The fastest way to travel isn’t just the speed of light but the speed of thought.” His whole thing is that meditation is the common communication method by which species of different types can connect because it’s all energetics, vibration, and this sort of thing. To me, that makes a lot of sense on some level if you understand the physics of vibration and how that all works.

The bottom line is I wouldn’t be surprised if there are aliens that have been visiting us for thousands of years, to your point, with the pyramids. How did humanity simultaneously decide to build pyramids all across the world at approximately the same time, give or take, like a few hundred years here or there but there was no known connection between those people groups or sharing of technology, not even to mention the complexity that it takes to build a pyramid and then the symbolism of the pyramid? Who knows what’s that all supposed to mean?

What if we’re aliens? We’ve been on this planet that we know of for 100,000 years. There’s still the “missing link” of how we evolved from Homo erectus to Homo sapiens, this so-called lineage of apes to human beings, and then suddenly we just popped up. It was like, “Where do these things come from?” Maybe we were just dropped off by a spaceship. I have no clue. There’s something going on. If you look at some of the video footage that has been shared and you even have seasoned Navy pilots who are like, “We don’t know what that was or how it could move like that,” there’s something going on.

What are your thoughts on the crop circles? I see some of the information that I was reading that a lot of them will resemble the visual that they give you. When explaining a chemical compound, like the design images, some of the crop circles represent those things. One example was the chemical compound for serotonin. What are the messages that are being sent in those? Also, the precision of everything. If they look at some of the artifacts from a long time ago, it’s the precision of how things can be created so perfectly.

They didn’t have machines and technology then to give the precision. Even still, the precision that we create isn’t quite as it was with some of the creations before. Look at the pyramids. The piece of the pyramid is missing. What does that mean? What was that to? What is the top of that pyramid? What was it intended for? How did they use it? Also, the placement of those pyramids on the planet. Why were they placed in that particular design and that location? There are so many unanswered questions. You then look at all these lost societies. You hear of not only the Mayans. What is the lost city that’s often referenced?

The Atlantis?

Yes, the Atlantis. What’s up with that?

I thought they found it. Isn’t it just in the Bahamas and there are water slides and stuff like that there?

I don’t think that’s the same thing. I do think something is going on there. Why is it coming up? In the ’60s, it seems like there was a lot of news around it, even the UFOs and the different sightings. It seems to always be dismissed and people who have UFO sightings are labeled as crazy or they shouldn’t be a part of society. There’s a stigma with them of some sort.

It is easier to dismiss people who claim to have seen UFOs as crazy and shouldn’t be part of society. This stigma mustn’t exist. 

If you’re trying to keep a secret and someone’s trying to say, “It’s not a secret,” then your best defense is to relegate them as crazy people who are making stuff up. On a more serious note, the fact that even though it’s being covered by the news media in a more mainstream way, it’s still only mentioned here and there. To me, this would be the biggest news in humanity’s history, to finally verify and validate that we have known about an alien species, they have crafts, we’ve captured some of them, and we’ve been trying to reverse engineer the technology and all of that.

It would obliterate and destroy all of the stories, narratives, and models that we’ve had for what it means to be human and what the purpose of us being here is. Every religion would struggle massively with this because, to some degree or another, most religions frame the experience of humanity as being somewhat unique and there’s this unique relationship to the creator. We’re special. The specialness is gone once another species from another planet is verified to be showing up.

If you think about the ramifications of that, our system of morality, governance, and law are all derived back to certain value systems that originated in religious and tribal traditions. They’ve been codified into law. If you take one story, the story of Moses, the tablets, and the Ten Commandments, these are ten laws for how to govern and set up a society. Let’s say aliens are true. It doesn’t preclude the existence of a supreme consciousness, Creator, God, or whatever people want to call it.

It does challenge the idea that human beings have some special place in the universe, that part of the narrative. Even the Catholic church, which I was reading, has started to insert a narrative that aliens don’t necessarily disprove God and the Catholic church’s principles. There’s some statement that they had made that they’re open to the possibility of aliens. When the Vatican does that, you know something is going on to the surface because they don’t just do stuff like that. Even them are already starting to tweak the narrative a bit because they know that the bottom could fall out from underneath the religion if they don’t get their arms around this.

That’s a whole other topic, the whole religion story. It takes me immediately into what’s going on in Israel. Why do you think the government would be covering up alien life? What would be its motivation?

There are two reasons. One, they want to prevent mass panic. People are naturally afraid of what they don’t know and understand. If there’s another species that is more sophisticated technologically than we are because if they’re here, we can barely get to our moon so if they got to us, there’s something they know that we don’t. That would lead people to be quite afraid. Governments are trying to mitigate mass panic and paranoia. That one thing. The second reason is if it is the case that alien technology has been captured, then the governments are going to want to try to reverse engineer it and keep that under wraps as long as possible so they can try to benefit from it.

It seems to me that a lot of the extraterrestrial life that’s out there is a peaceful one. I don’t think that the intention is to be destructive. The intention is to do good. It’s unfortunate because how cool would that be knowing that we have other life forms outside of our planet that we get to collaborate with, create things with, communicate with, learn new things, expand our awareness, and expand so much about our lives? How cool would that be? We then are putting this tiny box that we need to live in to keep the masses controlled. That’s my perspective.

Don’t expect anybody else to have the same perspective but it’s been my experience when we’re talking about religion. There’s a place and an audience for religion that they need to have that particular structure. There’s a great benefit to that. I also believe that there are people who go to church to have a closer connection with their creator, whoever that may be for them, and have a stronger sense of self through understanding the higher power or powers that exist. Some people will outgrow the church. I can say for myself that I would fall into that category where there was a time when I said, “There has to be more to this than what I’m experiencing and what they’re teaching me about what this book tells me so.”

When I let go of that, I felt like that’s where I expanded and grew within myself but also had a much closer relationship with what I consider to be my creator, whatever that source of energy is for people. What I don’t like is when you go to a football game and you have somebody sitting on the corner with a microphone and a sign that says, “If you don’t obey this church’s law, you’re going to hell.” That doesn’t seem to be procreative at all in any sense. It seems to be suffocating.

If it were true that the government had a contract with alien life of what they can and can’t do to this planet or society, because the government knows better, isn’t that stance that they take with everything? “We know better. We know how things should go.” I wonder, “Is there an expiration on that agreement? If so, are we approaching it,” or our government is just so sloppy and destructive that alien life feels, “We need to come and help humanity here in this dimension on this planet.”

Dr. Steven Greer talks a lot about that. He leads these meditations. Demi Lovato does meditations with Dr. Steven Greer and others. They go to Sedona. His belief is that aliens have been observing us. Not that aliens haven’t been on the planet throughout all of human history. Maybe just because we have technology with cameras and things like that to see and record it. It seems more frequent but his belief is that ever since the atomic bomb was created, their visitation has increased because there’s concern that we might destroy ourselves on the planet in the process.

It’s because we haven’t mastered this thing called the ego. We are more preoccupied with reaffirming our separateness than we are looking for the common things that bind us together. Humanity has still not cracked this even though it’s clear as day that it needs to be handled and how to handle it. It’s quite possible that if aliens are here watching, we don’t know for sure. They haven’t even admitted they’re real yet. This is the ridiculousness.

We are more preoccupied with reaffirming separateness than looking for common things that bind us together.

When you start getting senior military people coming out and pilots coming out saying, “We don’t know what the hell this stuff was,” it’s hard to put the cap back in the bag as they say at that point. This is the thing. Even if we’re talking about aliens and religion and how all these things will relate, they relate in this way. Human beings have always tried to have an understanding of, “What is the meaning of life? Why are we here? What is the purpose of it?” We are also naturally spiritual beings. I believe fundamentally that human beings are spiritual beings having a human experience.

As spiritual beings, we try to make sense of the meaning of life and we migrated from spirituality to religion over several thousand years. I specifically define religion as when spirituality meets politics and gets combined. To me, religion is defined as spirituality and politics commingled and you get religion. Spirituality is fine on its own and politics is fine on its own. Not necessarily fine but it can be in its own box. This was why even the founding fathers wanted to keep the division between church and state but the problem is the church was already a religion.

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The church was already codified as a system of rules, values, and how you should and shouldn’t live and all of this stuff. Spirituality has none of that. Spirituality has everything to do with how individuals relate to God, the Creator, Supreme Consciousness, Divine Being, or whatever you want to call it. What we did in human history is because all human beings have this natural spiritual inclination, we codified it, wrapped it in a structure, called it a religion, and put a whole bunch of rules in that box. That’s the political part. People don’t think of it this way but politics is a framework in which power is worked out.

It’s a framework in which those who have the power and those who are vying for the power battle it out. They do it either through legislation or sometimes those political situations can erupt into full-blown war. Politics is all about power. When you combine power, the dynamics of power, and the human proclivity to want to horde power over other people and you add that to spirituality, you get religion. I’m a big advocate for decoupling the power from spirituality and then religion dissolves.

That doesn’t mean that people can’t believe in the precepts of the tenets of various religious doctrines but understand there was a point in history when those doctrines didn’t exist and then I asked the question what was before it. You can’t just say, “This is the truth.” I’m like, “What happened to the people who didn’t know the truth you say is the truth because they existed before that existed?” You have to be able to look at these things rationally. There’s nothing rational when people’s emotions are activated and they’re running the show.

They don’t have emotional sobriety, as we would say in TMIC. Without emotional sobriety, we all get wrapped up in our emotions and they can think of us and determine our behavior before we even have a chance to consider our behavior and regulate it. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with religious doctrine in terms of the narrative. Joseph Campbell taught us that human beings are story-making creatures. We live and breathe by the story. We tell each other stories. A lot of the time we’ve been talking here, you’ve been asking me and I’ve been talking and asking you about aliens.

These are just stories because we don’t know. I haven’t shaken hands with an alien yet or had a conversation so it’s just belief. There’s nothing wrong with postulating belief but we don’t know. There’s nothing wrong with beliefs or stories. Faith is an essential part of the human experience. To your point about the football game, when you try to lord it over people, you have left the spiritual frame of reference and moved firmly into the political-religious frame of reference. You’re not even trying to persuade. You’re trying to force someone else to believe what you believe and that’s politics.

There’s always a hero in a villain in every story. Perhaps we’re creating the heroes to come and save us from the villains because they’re so destructive. Do you follow Ben Shapiro by chance?

No, but I know of him. Let me put it this way. I’ve seen a few of his shows. There was a movie that came out a number of years ago. It was probably one of my favorite movies to this day called Whiplash. It’s about a jazz player. It was fabulous. He always used to say, because he was conducting the jazz band, “That’s not my tempo.” He’s just not my tempo.

I understand. I do appreciate his directness and a lot of his perspective on some of the things that are going on. He was talking about what’s going on over in Israel. One of the things that he said that I keep playing over in my mind was it seems obvious when somebody says it but it was an a-ha when he said it. It seems so obvious like, “Why didn’t I think about this before?” He says, “Not everybody thinks like you.” Here in America, it’s so different. We believe in spirituality. Everybody needs to find their voice, find out who they are, and understand that not everybody thinks that way. He was talking about how the Hamas think and are so different.

We have this illusion that everybody thinks like we do and that everybody wants peace and harmony. It’s not true. The world is so messy. I’ve been around since the ’80s. That’s as far back as I know but if we can look in history, we can see that there’s always been some kind of mess going on publicly. You’ve used the word power. I’d like to close with this if we can. Can you give an explanation of power? When I think of political power, I think of control. “Control the masses. I want to win. For me to win, I’m going to make sure you lose and I’m going to do it with passion.” That’s the kind of power that I think.

We have this illusion that everybody thinks like we do. This is not the case. The world is messy, and not everyone wants peace and harmony.

In my world when I think of power, defining and becoming more and more aware of who you are is where your power is. That’s your true power. It’s not a forceful or controlling power. It’s owning your power. You see somebody that knows who they are. They have a power about themselves that’s infectious and contagious. You want to know, “What are you doing? I want that same type of thing.” I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I don’t want that kind of power that politics has. To me, that is not powerful at all. Can you speak to that a little bit from your perspective?

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There are so many definitions of power. This isn’t the one I would necessarily use but one of the most common definitions of power is the ability to cause someone or something to do something that you want them to do.

It sounds like manipulation to me but go ahead.

It doesn’t always have to be. It could be done through persuasion. It could be through a convincing debate or argument that you put forth. It could be done through reason or force. I would define power as the ability to realize one’s will. What you will to happen, you can make that so. It’s a much broader definition because it includes being able to cause someone or something to do what you want them to do. It could include that but it also includes the self. The ability to exercise the will is also my ability to exercise what I will in my life, and it doesn’t have to involve someone else.

This is my view anyway. Why we have a grievance culture is that we have a society of victims. You don’t have a grievance if you’re not a victim in your mind. It doesn’t mean anything hasn’t necessarily happened to you but you adopt this personality or this persona of being a victim. What is a victim? A victim is someone without power. A victim, by definition, is someone who does not have power in a particular circumstance. That could be because they don’t have it internally or it could be because they’re being coerced from outside, and so they’re lacking power.

The common thread of what defines a victim from my perspective is someone who lacks power. When you lack power, you complain and have a grievance. You lash out at people. If you were powerful, why would you have to do that? If you’re powerful, you can exercise your will. That’s why I would define power as the ability to exercise one’s will. I’ve never read that anywhere incidentally so I made that up on the spot here. I was thinking about it when you asked. I was like, “How would I define that?”

I always try to get to the root of a thing and go one level deeper. All of the definitions of power I’ve ever read have to do with the ability to cause someone else to do something that they wouldn’t otherwise do. Usually, you read this kind of definition of power. It’s in leadership books and things like that. Leaders have power because they’re charismatic and persuasive so people will follow them. That definition doesn’t take into consideration. What about personal power? What about if there’s no one else around that you’re trying to persuade or force to do anything? What if it’s just you?

Are you powerless then if there’s no other person? Power has always usually been referenced or defined as an intrapersonal dynamic between me and others or me and one other person but I believe you can have personal power. We talk about things like willpower. What is that? We’ve used the word power. Power is the ability to exercise the will. We have a society of grievance because we have created a society of victims. What I don’t want people to hear in that is, “I need to get the power back,” because then they’re going to think, “I need to go take power from someone else to get it.” That misses the point again.

The power is from within. There’s unlimited power within all of us. You don’t need to take it from someone else. You don’t need to make someone else feel bad or make fun of someone. It’s not a zero-sum game where there’s only so much power to go around like, “If I don’t have any, then there’s no way for me to get it unless I take it from someone.” This is part of the issue that we have. What’s under that is the ego and separateness, which is a whole other talk that we can dig into. That’s how I would define it. I don’t know if that makes sense to you.

There is unlimited power within all of us. You don’t need to take from someone else.

It does make sense. There’s a lot of layers to power. It’s misconstrued and misunderstood what it is. People who are not in tune with their internal power believe that power is something that comes from the outside, having someone like, “I’ve got the power. I got this on you so you’re going to do what I say because I got this card.” That’s not power to me. That’s manipulation and control.

It’s the absence of power in a weird way. It qualifies as power from one respect because you are able to exercise your will. However, the person who has to take power from someone else is very weak because they haven’t learned how to generate power from within.

Maybe the aliens are going to come down to help and empower us to find our internal power.

Maybe that’s it. We’ll find out.

We’ll see.

Everybody, thank you for reading this episode. We look forward to you joining us next time. Until then. Bye-bye.


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